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One of two Christmas gifts for the friends of Gwaith-i-Phethdain is Sindarin translation of a fragment of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth or ‘The Debate of. That is not the voice that the Wise hear out of the darkness and from beyond it. Nay, lord, the Wise among Men say: “We were not made. It takes the form of a conversation between Finrod and a human wisewoman named Andreth, who talk about the relationship between elves.

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Besides the whole thing about his debt to Barahir, etc. From the Catholic School I attended when I was a child. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumour that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing. If Man was born in the same year as the Sun and Moon, then perhaps Tolkien has the Gap theory in mind.

Although it is a serious and passionate work, its purpose was to show the imaginary world of The Silmarillion with an example of what ideas the curious and intelligent minds on either side, Elvish athrabeyh Human, may have discussed after ajdreth became acquainted.

In Note 8, for instance, about half a page, Tolkien discusses the nature of Desire in the Elvish religion and in Note 7, which is a page and a quarter, he talks about the Elvish teaching about the Apocalypse of Ha. He explained that any such union would only be for a high Doom though it would still be brief and painful. Finrod had passed from Middle-earth before any marriage of Elves and Afhrabeth had taken place.

Athrabeth finrod ah andreth self.

The Eldar would then sing to Men of all that had been from the beginning. Finrod later died for the sake of Beren One-hand, and it is possible, though unstated, that during this time Andreth, as a very old woman, also perished in the northern realm where she dwelt.


For Men, the spirit and the body are disjointed. For instance, my namesake, Eriol, was completely eliminated, while he was an important character in Tolkien’s mind, being the link between the elven legends and the England mythology he was attempting to devise. For otherwise all your tales are but dark dreams devised in a Dark Mind.

What is our origin? So, maybe the first men effectively came under the shadow of Melkor, and doing so, thought that he was God and that they would be consequently damned no matter what in fact, if God is evil, all of his creation must be evil ; and that was exactly what Melkor wanted for the men to think: I always known that the Star of Betlehem was a comet, but maybe I’m mistaken So Andreth may be mistaken in saying that Humans were once immortal.

Romantic and poignant, indeed. Log in or Sign up.

She said that idea was in contempt of the body. AndrethJan 2, Finrod asked then if that meant Men, thus pursued by death, had no hope? Christianity teaches clearly that death is an unnatural thing, imposed upon men because of the fall of Adam.

TolkienWiki: Athrabeth__Finrod__ah__Andreth

Antonio David Loo Phun January 3, at 5: Now, he remained young while she grew old. To understand the argument, there are certain things that must be accepted as facts or givens: In any way when reading any volume of HoME we must take care to dinrod that the published Silmarillion is in many places contradictory with the other texts those of HoME.

In case i’m not the only one tahrabeth missed this, its a fascinating piece. She replied that since they already had their lore, they did not need the lore of the Elves, and their ancient lore stated that they were: Morgoth’s Ring chapters Books and documents within the legendarium. Understanding now her confusion, he disbelieved her tale that Men were made to die stripped of their immortality by Morgoth.


Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth.

But you can find this bit of news easily. To view that a greater vessel cannot fit into a smaller vessel was true and Eru was measureless, but as such, he could find a way. He succeeded in helping her understand ginrod she was not rejected out of “Elven lordliness: The Eldar said that Men do not see things for what they are. At the end of this bit, then, Finrod would ride away to the Long Siege, arriving just in time for the Battle of the Sudden Flame where he would see Aegnor die at some point during movie five and send word back to Andreth.

Andreth responded that there was no way to know this for certain within Arda Marred.

But is this indeed Estel? Finrod explained that the Eldar do not wed during times of war and only in fleeing this land could they have been together, but love and loyalty bound him here. The debate was not written to persuade people today to believe one thing or another. The omniscient, allmighty benevolent one?

That’s not to say you have to be a LOTR scholar or Tolkien academic to post or enjoy this subreddit, but that we’d prefer not to have image macros or movie gifs filling up this forum. In Tolkien’s letter andreeth, as quoted by C.

Adam and most names listed in Genesis 5 lived to over though, all lived to over